My name is on the Quit Claim Deed of a home that is paid off and I am still being asked to pay rent. Is this fair?
My mom is 88 yrs old. My Dad has been gone since 2005. When they made a quit claim deed, My brother and sister and I and mom's names are all on that deed. A recent consultation visit with a Elder Law attorney, said that the Quit Claim Deed was a good thing, but the bad thing was, that she still had her Name on it. When my girlfriend moved in here in September, she was asked to pay rent here to my mom. I don't feel it is fair since I am already part owner of this house. My mom has 2 houses both paid for. I live on 40 acres of property that is called the "Family Farm". I have been taking care of mom and all her needs as best as I can for a lot of years now. I even lost my job when I approached my boss in December of 2009, 3 days before X-mas to tell him that I was having issues at home with my mom and needed to miss some time. Three days later he let me go. I was able to get unemployment, but it will not last forever. Moms still has lots of needs to go to the doctor, doing her pills, getting her mail, grocery shopping and all to do with transportation,. We have her on a list to get into assisted living, but she is not wanting to do this. She is ignoring the Doctors suggestions to be there and he understands my need to get back to work. Today my mom says why can't kids just help their parents for free? I couldn't say anything. Any ways, my family feels that I have lived here rent free for the 22 yrs I been here. Many times during those years, I have paid rent off and on and can prove it. My girlfriend quit her job in California and moved to Michigan to help out with my mom till I could get back on my feet. On several different occasions all I hear is that she is here for the money. But everything I do is getting thrown in my face. I feel my girlfriend should not have to pay rent to my mom because I am already a part owner of this house. On top of all we have done for her and don't get paid for.
I don't want to get paid from my mom. but this is all becoming too much for me.
My sister says that mom should get paid the $400 a month rent , and that is to pay for the taxes. That is a $3000 dollar profit for my mom. That money is gonna be taken by the state for her care because she didn't get her name off of the Quit Claim Deed. And I know it is too late for that. Anyways my mom said that none of us can afford the taxes. I told her it would be cheaper for me to pay the taxes than pay rent. Can she legally collect money for rent, when my name is already on the deed? And I don't feel its fair in the end for my siblings to get reinbursed equally for all I have been doing to keep this place up incuding hers Plus all the years of taking care of everything for mom. I also kept her lawn up on 2 acres of lawn over there for 6 yrs now plus the espense of taking care of this place over here that no one seems apprieciative of? Is it okay for mom to be the sole boss to collect when I have done all I can to help her. It doesn't make since to me.. ANd because of all this turmoil, my girlfriend has moved out and rented another place for less, My sister is telling me now that they can get $600 a month rent from here if I move out. I mean what the hey?? I don't understand, I am unemployed, but feel if I want a better life, I need to move out of a home that I have been at for years. What do I do?
9 Answers
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You see your rent-free living as payment for upkeep on the property and caregiving services. Your siblings (who probably have not really thought it through and don't understand what caregiving entails) see it as a free ride, and as more benefits than they are getting from Mom's estate. It is too bad this wasn't discussed more thoroughly upfront, but that is often the case.
If your mom goes into a long term care facility presuably one of the houses may have to be sold to provide money for that. Perhaps both house will need to be sold for that purpose -- does she have other assets or income that will pay for years of long term care?
As to what happens to the house between now and when it is eventually sold, how about this? Draw up a list of all the things you do for Mom that would have to be hired done if you were not there. Don't count playing cards with her two nights a week if that is something you would do whether she was ill or not, and if your siblings do similar visiting. Write down things like how long it takes to manage meds each week, doing Mom's laundry, cooking for her, taking her to doctor appointments, and the other caregiving tasks you perform. Try to find out the local going rate for these activities, and total up the costs for your services. Also list the lawn and house maintence you do/pay for that a landlord would normally be expected to provide. What is the fair market rent value of the house?
Let us say the rent is $600, and your services/house upkeep list is $450. You put $600 into the "House account" each month, and then withdraw $450 for your services. If your list is $700 each month, then some negotiating has to occur. None of this is about not being willing to help your mom for free -- it is about trying to make it fairer for all the co-owners of the house.
When Mom does move to a long term care facility the caregiving tasks will be greatly reduced but not eliminated. There may still be medical appointments to take her to, keeping an eye on how things are going, meeting and discussing/negotiating concerns with the facility staff, etc. If you continue to live in the house you'd continue to pay rent and continue to get paid for your services, but probably less.
Do this sound fair?
A major question is whether or mot Mom wil ever have to qualify for Medicaid herself. There was a good post or article on here reasonable ways to let parents pay children for care - it has to all be at fair market value, and well-documented so it is not seen as "gifting." There are some circumstances where the penalty for gifting may be worth incurring, depending on how much the care costs. Also, another possibility is to see about any community waiver programs that would let mom get home care services if she really does not want to move out to assissted living and there could be advantages to that. Once mom is not living in the house there may be questions about whether it would be counted as an asset for spend-down, though they usually do not as long as the person states they want to or plan to return; also that may trigger estate recovery for dad's Medicaid. Also, Medicaid only lets you have one house and they do not care about leaving you enough money to take care of it. It is not really just about what seems fair or reasonable, but what gives you all an advantage tax or estate wise and leaves mom enough money for her care life-long. And you also have to be careful with rent money - that could be an asset or income that is countable for either spend-down or estate recovery as well. To make things worse, in some states they have even begun requiring chidren to pay for care for their parents. Your documentation on what you have spent might become very important and I would get all that together also. I wish you well and hope you indeed can find trustworthy legal/financial advisors for your specific situation!
Mom doesn't get it, of course and still is wanting to know why my sister is taking care of the money and bills now, when mom feels she can still do it. The Elder Law Attorney said that her fee is $7000.00, my mom said it is too much and doesn't want to pay. The attorney told my mom , she has 2 choices, either let her hide the money so she can get on medicaid and save the 1 house and property for her kids and be able to give them something in the end, or give it all to the state. Mom still says she don't get it, and doesn't want to pay.
I am sure that everyone out there has gone through this similiar thing. All I am wanting to know is why am I on a deed to a house that has been paid off for 37 yrs, am I being asked to pay rent to put into my moms account that is going to end up going to the state anyways for her care. My mom said she is paying the taxes, because none of us can afford it. When I tried to show her on paper yesterday that she is making a profit of $3000 above the taxes, she says she doesn't get it. And yes a very good idea to list the things I have done and making a house account. I have mentioned this list many times , and my sister gets it. but then. time goes by that somethings are forgotten. I will work on that list . I am so frustrated right now, as I so want to just move from here to get away from all the problems. My neice has moved in with mom right now which has been a big relief to me. However, she does not drive or have a car. So much is still on my plate. Mom does not want to leave home and wants to die at home like dad did. I don't think she gets how hard this is getting on all of us. I want to just love her as much as I can, but she seems so angry right now and everytime I try to mention anything she says all I want to do is argue with her everyday. I can't seem to stop this vicious cycle. I am trying to stay away as much as possible right now to cool down and only go there when needed. But I do need to go there almost everyday, just trying to keep my visits short because I am getting so short fused right now. I can't help being angry over so much and it is not good for me to be over there. Thank you for all your input. It has helped so much.
But I can see emotions are running high and theat makes everything harder by far. You really must feel like you are just hitting your head on the wall, and sister has got to be feeling like she is in over her head too iwth her husband so ill and needing care and dealing with all that entails as well. The strategy of visiting often for short periods (I'd call it "short 'n' sweet) is probably a very good one. If mom can pay for assisted living or home health for 3 years that's actually a great thing, If legally you have to pay rent and document caregiver duties to be paid for it, it might help to think that in the long run, it could end up saving part of mom's estate; if she does not spend down everything and does not ever need Medicaid, which, for better or worse, could happen, there would be that much left for inheritances. Maybe moving out and letting them take on a boarder for extra $$ is not such a bad plan, though you have to pick and choose and supervise! My mom passed right after I had a $350.00 consultation iwth an eldercare attorney, but it gave some answers and insights that may still have been worth the money. He would then have answered a simple question or two fo free, then charged an hourly rate for any additional work, which sounds a lot more reasonable than 7k like yours wants.
Fully recognizing that all the easy questions have been answered already, I hope there is a good answer for your situation that makes the best of these tough times and leaves you all feeling that you did your best to give Mom what she wanted and needed most in her last years.
But first, get a job! The fact that you are financially dependent puts you at a disadvantage in working out solutions with your siblings. In this market finding employment may not happen overnight, but that is where the bulk of your energy should be concentrated. Get a job, and you'll be surprised at how many more options you have.