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The doctor released him to go home. And now she won’t let me visit but just twice a week at one hour visits. How do I fight this? My father is so sad because of this situation and can’t come home!!
It is sad to see how family members use the person who needs care as pawns in their fights with each other. I have the same problem, but not to the extent of the original poster and her sister. When my husband was still in assisted living for respite care, I told everyone (close and distant relatives) that no one would be barred from writing to him and/or visiting him. The only request I made was that the visit should be coordinated (yes, I used the word "coordinate") with me so that their visit wouldn't be in vain. I often took my husband out for meals and appointments, so it would behoove them to check in with me to see if we already had plans that day. Everyone agreed, except one of his sisters who has never been warm to my long marriage to my husband. Civil is the best word I can describe her treatment of me. Anyway, she showed up once before I got there to take my husband to an appointment. I was surprised and reminded her to coordinate with me. Her reply was that he was her sister and she didn't feel the need to tell me. This is the woman who lives 3 hrs away. I told her that it would be wise to work with me because if I had shown up 1 hr earlier, her visit would have been a waste. Well, she did it again the following week and she called the facility instead of me to find out his schedule. She also wanted to take him out. Fortunately, I didn't put her name on the list of people who could take him out. She was furious. I then told her that if I had known she was coming, I'd put her on the list. She is not talking to me now. Good riddance.
Now that my husband is home, I don't know what I would do if she wanted to come for a visit. She would be on my turf and I probably need to set some ground rules. If she doesn't want to abide by them, she can stand out in the cold all she wants. I cannot stand disrespect.
The point is: Why do family members do this? Instead of anger and hatred, why not direct that energy to loving the one who is ill. I just don't get it.
It is entirely possible (though not common) for someone to be placed in memory care and then into assisted living. Some possibilities include:
1) Memory Care was never really appropriate. The case seemed borderline and the original decision erred on the side of getting more care. When implemented, it appeared that assisted living would be more appropriate. Original placement decisions are not always correct.
2) The person was suffering from dementia and some other condition. While dementia does not improve, the other condition might. The net results might be improved behavior and a new placement decision.
I personally know someone who went from memory care to AL. It does happen.
Just FYI, you cannot obtain guardianship "secretly," even if you try not to tip your hand. Guardianship is granted by a court, after investigations and a hearing, and all interested parties can be involved.
OK have you even had full responsibility for him before? There must be a valid reason that he is there or the doctor would have signed release papers, of course with the understanding that he probably needs full time care. Believe me if you have not spent a few days with him where he is now to see how he is all day do not judge. Their moods and needs can change in a heartbeat.
Jeanne hits the nail on the head. The issue is one of establishing your father's competence. If a doctor is satisfied that he has sufficient mental capacity to understand consequences and make decisions about where he wants to live, your sister's POA cannot override him.
Jeanne is also insightful in wondering if the facility followed the line of least resistance when it admitted your father. There again, your father needs an advocate; work on that.
I am confused as to how your Dad ended up in memory care? Does he have dementia or delirium? They can sometimes recover from delirium but not dementia. My mother had both; she is in memory care, and is one of the most mobile patients in the unit. In fact, she helps the help to keep her busy, and the agitation at bay. She can dress herself, and carry on conversation, but she cannot tell you the day of the week, even though there is a clock in her room that specifically states the day of the week. She thinks she just finished the dishes there is no dishes or a kitchen sink her room. The sun downing is the difficult part. At this stage they are like a toddler, you need a constant eye on them. The only difference is that a toddler cannot hurt you, when they go into raging fits their behavior becomes very unpredictable. This is the last thing I ever wanted to do to my mom, but had no choice, it will not take a village to get him home, but will take a village to care for him if he has dementia. If your dad is mentally competent you could contact an attorney to have your dad sign a new POA listing you and void the last POA. Although being POA is no fun either, as you have to sign all types of documents, and also sign a DNR which is heart wrenching in itself.
I give you so much credit for wanting to take care of your dad. It is extremely hard to handle an elderly person but an elderly person with health issues is ten times harder. my father 92 god bless his soul died two days ago. it was a long and very draining journey that I took with him. mom is still alive but her health is failing also. if your dad wants to come home and the doctors say its ok to go I would go to court to have your sister taken off as his POA. I cant believe any judge would not understand that your father wants to be home for the remainder of his life. I would fight for him, its what he wants . your sister sounds like a piece of work. I wonder if money is behind her decision to give you a hard time. I would talk to the doctors and get the whole story and than make a decision . its your father and you have a right to know exactly whats going on....good luck to you....
Have you ever considered secretly gaining guardianship and overthrowing the POA? You don't want to tip your hand and you don't know what that POA may actually be doing and for all you know that POA may actually be stealing from him as this problem is all too common among the elderly.
Now, my question is why was your dad released from memory care if he needs to be there? Are they not able to handle him? Why was he not transferred to another facility? Gaining guardianship will help you put things back on the right track but be careful handling his affairs, especially his money and assets
I am also very confused about Dad being released from a memory care center. My mom lived with me for 2 years and has been in memory care since last August. I had very mixed feelings once I placed her. One year later, she is not the high functioning person she once was. My Mom could dress herself, do her hair and make up, shower etc.; people would say that she seemed normal.
Now my poor sweet mother cannot find the bathroom in her own room, urinates in the closet, and thinks I am her sister. I just hope all of you can get together and decide what is right for dad. Maybe a mediator or geriatric care manager should get involved.
Carney, family fights really stink. My husband’s family is estranged from us, and I know it bothers him. I’m not sure I understand how your father is being released from Memory Care, though. Usually, those units are reserved for patients who have mental concerns and people don’t come and go from them, at least not where my mother was.
Is your father self~pay at his facility? If so, with the cost of these places, I’m sure Dad’s finances have suffered. Who gets what from Dad may not be an issue for long.
You sound like you have it all together and in place as far as taking care of Dad. Why is your sister so against it? Is she like my husband’s sister and has to be in charge of it al? Where does your Dad want to go? What about Assisted Living?
I hope you can work this out. I know how frustrating it is.
I can only speak from my experience, but my struggles over my mother's care were complicated by my sister's long distance meddling. When Mom was diagnosed with advanced dementia after my dad (and then caretaker), Sis was nowhere to be found. Our telephonic conversations were mostly about her demands from her for money. As Mom improved with proper medical care for an oozing wound and long overdue dental work, Sis began calling Mom to circumvent my authority as the long standing POA and, more importantly to her, Trustee of the funds. The facility shut her down for HIPPA reasons and eventually Sis's lawyer was ignored as a nuisance. After three years now, Sis is not speaking to any of us and only sends in here required receipts for uses spelled out in the Trust. I am grateful now that I can focus on my Mom. Yes, she is 1000 times healthier than three years ago, but the mood changes need constant monitoring. Also she is beginning to role out of bed and the 24-hour monitoring has prevented her from breaking limbs.
You say you will be moving in with him? Is hubby coming also? Could this be why the POA is adamant he can't come home? Are there financial issues about his house, etc., you aren't mentioning? I'm POA for my mom, and there's a good reason for it, though my sister and brother and I get along fine. Sorry, but I'd like to hear the other side of the story because there usually is one, lol.
IMHO the sister is likely overstepping her authority of an ordinary POA document. I'd consider consulting an attorney, preferably dad's attorney. Grace + Peace, Bob
Carney: I'm curious as to how your dad ended up in AL Memory Care in the first place? He can clean and dress by himself, and carry on a conversation with other people. That's quite impressive. Why was he placed in ALMC?
Why should it take a village to get a loved one home. He wants to go home. My sister doesn’t want his girlfriend there. She is jealous of her and don’t want her to get any money from him. That’s the reason
If your father is not legally declared incompetent, then it is he who gets to decide who can visit him, and how often. That is not up to his POA. He can also decide where he wants to live (within his means). The care facility should be aware of that. It might help if his doctor wrote a letter to them declaring that he does not need memory care and that he is not incompetent to make his own decisions. I wonder if it isn't just easier for a facility to say, "Oh she has POA, let her make decisions" than for them to respect the legal limits of POA authority. Unless your father has been declared incompetent by a court, the facility should not be enforcing your sister's decisions.
If Dad is mentally competent to make decisions, he can also decide that he wants you for financial and health care POA.
I know a man with dementia who called his doctor and declared that he did not belong in the memory care unit, and there was no one he could have a decent conversation with. Just the fact that he made it all the way through the lengthy phone menu and made it through to the doctor was pretty impressive in itself. The doctor OK'd him for regular Assisted Living, where he remained the rest of his life. So, yes, sometimes a decision that a patient needs memory care is later reversed by a doctor.
I'm not addressing the issue of what would be best for your father. But in terms of who can make decisions for him, I do not understand why your sister has that authority at this time.
Most of the Memory Care units that I have seen, require that a doctor confirm that it is needed. The resident may be healed in their body, but, not the mind. And dementia is not really reversible, most of the time. So, I'm not sure how he would qualify for Memory Care and then be mentally sound to leave.
Have you ever provided around the clock care for someone with dementia? It's often quite a bit more involved, than most people think. So, when I hear that someone thinks it's quite simple, I'm concerned. I'd also consider the reality of care as it progresses and mobility is a major issue. I might listen to sister's reasons for her decision. Maybe, she is aware of some things that you are not.
If the doctor found him competent to make his own decisions then I'm confused as to how she can prevent you from visiting or him from leaving, or did he (doctor) just advise that he is physically fit enough not to need nursing care?
Freqflyer yes my father was released from his doctor and yes my dear I was at the appointment. My sister has said no, why, she might have to do something. She’s very lazy. She doesn’t have to lift her finger. No he doesn’t really need help with much. He gets up dresses or showers all by himself. He shaves grooms himself without help. He carries an intelligent conversation with me and my husband. Honey I want full responsability for him NO I’m not the only one doing it. Yes I will hire help plus my husband will be there. I will be living with him at his house all rooms on one floor. No stairs I’m not stupid here... this won’t be a piece of cake. I do have common sense to do the right thing. Yes I know it will be work. Yes I’m prepared for it. NO my dad isn’t just saying he can go home. I think I covered all your questions.
If he's competent, Dad can change the Power of Attorney to you and you can assist him in the move to his home. Of course, at that point, you will be responsible for all of the matters pertaining to his care and your sister will be off the hook.....
Carney, if your Dad is in an Assisted Living/Memory Center, he's there for a very good reason. It now takes a village to take care of him. With Alzheimer's/Dementia, the situation with memory only gets worse, not better.
I am surprised that a Doctor would release your Dad to go home, or is this something your Dad told you? With memory issues, it is common for the patient to make up stories to get attention. Plus when a person says "they want to go home", usually they mean their childhood home, where life was much easier when they were a child.
Now, if your Dad does "go home", will you be his primary caregiver? He will need 24 hour care, thus you would be doing the work of 3 full-time caregivers each and every day. Is your house fixed with grab-bars in the bathroom, and other things that one usually finds in a Memory Care center? It takes a lot of planning, updating, patience, and energy.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Now that my husband is home, I don't know what I would do if she wanted to come for a visit. She would be on my turf and I probably need to set some ground rules. If she doesn't want to abide by them, she can stand out in the cold all she wants. I cannot stand disrespect.
The point is: Why do family members do this? Instead of anger and hatred, why not direct that energy to loving the one who is ill. I just don't get it.
1) Memory Care was never really appropriate. The case seemed borderline and the original decision erred on the side of getting more care. When implemented, it appeared that assisted living would be more appropriate. Original placement decisions are not always correct.
2) The person was suffering from dementia and some other condition. While dementia does not improve, the other condition might. The net results might be improved behavior and a new placement decision.
I personally know someone who went from memory care to AL. It does happen.
Jeanne is also insightful in wondering if the facility followed the line of least resistance when it admitted your father. There again, your father needs an advocate; work on that.
Now, my question is why was your dad released from memory care if he needs to be there? Are they not able to handle him? Why was he not transferred to another facility? Gaining guardianship will help you put things back on the right track but be careful handling his affairs, especially his money and assets
Now my poor sweet mother cannot find the bathroom in her own room, urinates in the closet, and thinks I am her sister. I just hope all of you can get together and decide what is right for dad. Maybe a mediator or geriatric care manager should get involved.
Is your father self~pay at his facility? If so, with the cost of these places, I’m sure Dad’s finances have suffered. Who gets what from Dad may not be an issue for long.
You sound like you have it all together and in place as far as taking care of Dad. Why is your sister so against it? Is she like my husband’s sister and has to be in charge of it al? Where does your Dad want to go? What about Assisted Living?
I hope you can work this out. I know how frustrating it is.
Grace + Peace,
Bob
If Dad is mentally competent to make decisions, he can also decide that he wants you for financial and health care POA.
I know a man with dementia who called his doctor and declared that he did not belong in the memory care unit, and there was no one he could have a decent conversation with. Just the fact that he made it all the way through the lengthy phone menu and made it through to the doctor was pretty impressive in itself. The doctor OK'd him for regular Assisted Living, where he remained the rest of his life. So, yes, sometimes a decision that a patient needs memory care is later reversed by a doctor.
I'm not addressing the issue of what would be best for your father. But in terms of who can make decisions for him, I do not understand why your sister has that authority at this time.
Have you ever provided around the clock care for someone with dementia? It's often quite a bit more involved, than most people think. So, when I hear that someone thinks it's quite simple, I'm concerned. I'd also consider the reality of care as it progresses and mobility is a major issue. I might listen to sister's reasons for her decision. Maybe, she is aware of some things that you are not.
I am surprised that a Doctor would release your Dad to go home, or is this something your Dad told you? With memory issues, it is common for the patient to make up stories to get attention. Plus when a person says "they want to go home", usually they mean their childhood home, where life was much easier when they were a child.
Now, if your Dad does "go home", will you be his primary caregiver? He will need 24 hour care, thus you would be doing the work of 3 full-time caregivers each and every day. Is your house fixed with grab-bars in the bathroom, and other things that one usually finds in a Memory Care center? It takes a lot of planning, updating, patience, and energy.