Dad is 80, he and I have always been hunters. The past few years he goes to deer camp but doesn't even get out (He cooks). The last few years I went (got tired of being the valet) I had to help him put on and tie his boots for him. We had some of the same issue with my grandfather which my uncle did a lot of work to keep him going. So now dad wants to go hunting near where I live and conned a friend to show him a place. The trouble is it is a walk into the woods and dad can't even walk through the kitchen without holding on to something or use his cane. We had this discussion at dinner the other night and it was "I'll use a cane". Right, "good, you will use a cane to walk a mile into the woods and carry your gun and a chair?" as I told him "I will be the one to have to come get you out". He didn't listen. Then it was "did you order my license?" I don't know what to do at this point. I have done everything I can short of telling him an absolute no. If I do I am the troubled son... The family doesn't talk to me now so I'm not losing much. He wants to drive 8 hours to camp. I am against it but I can't stop him. I know just going and not event getting out doesn't bother him, he like to get away and be with his friends but the long drive (he breaks it up and the fear of him falling in the woods gives me pain). I know the family and friends will look out for him but times have changed. So what do I do? tell him no? I keep putting everything off but only for so long. My hope is that he wants to think he is going but knowing how he is he wont go at the last minute. A few years ago I spent a lot of money flying him west on a last big trip for him and me. Cost me thousands. He did about 2 hours of fishing on a 8 day trip.... At least I enjoyed my part but he fell and got hurt the first day..... but he sure went out to dinner every night on my dime! Dammed if I do dammed if I dont.
You have a very tough situation; I wish you much luck with your family.
You are not going to like what I have to say so stop reading here.
I suggest your head all your posts in capitol letters: I AM JUST HERE TO VENT. DO NOT SUGGEST SOLUTIONS AS I WILL JUST CONTINUE WHAT I AM AND HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS.
It seems to me obvious you cannot or will not act on the help you have been offered. It sounds to me that you are just here to express the old "woe is me, I'm so alone and misunderstood!"
Nothing is going to change until and unless YOU make up your mind. That being said you need professional help which you seem not to be prepared to undertake.
Like most of the people who want to be of some help I empathize with your situation and would offer the same suggestions as the others but you, apparently it seems to me, do not really want to overcome your problems.
"I need to learn to use tools to help them all understand. Doing reading, research on how to deal with this all. Just plain saying it to their face doesn't work, for some reason they dont hear me,. its like talking to the dogs... get the same dumba** look... " Of course they "don't hear", why should they, they have heard it so many times they know it means nothing, nothing is going to change.
To me you are beginning to sound like you're trolling. Get real, get off your duff or let everyone know for sure you are not going to change.
As far as dad I have no choice, he is here. Siblings do not talk to me, family has pretty much shunned me due to what ever he tells them. I try to talk to him, ask him but he continues to do what he wants. Sure I have said I have no money, then he gets overages and then I have to cover. Sure I can let him go but someday it will be MY problem.
Trying to help my daughter along. Outside of saying "get out, get a place I have no idea what to do". Trust me, we have been talking and coming up with ways to help but He is a loser and she is my daughter. If I leave it up to him they will be in a sh*t hole like their first year of marriage. He would be happy and her miserable. Until she sees the light not much I can do. We try to help with getting them direction, giving them the right people to talk to so they can get a place. We have found places for them. So again outside of giving my daughter whom I love the boot not sure what to do. He is worthless so I would kick him out in a second but I have to intend her.
I have tried everything with dad, talking about cleaning the floor, leaving cleaning supplies in the bathroom for him to clean up after he pees on the floor. Tough love doesn't work like some wold say. I need to learn to use tools to help them all understand. Doing reading, research on how to deal with this all. Just plain saying it to their face doesn't work, for some reason they dont hear me,. its like talking to the dogs... get the same dumba** look...
If only you could talk this forcefully to your son-in-law!
tg, everyone on this forum is rooting for you. What I failed to remember is that in your case it is extremely difficult for you to make any sort of change. I know you mostly left a few months back (except for some posts in the dysfunctional families area) because someone referenced some of your old posts and pointed out that things were the same as quite a while before. You didn't like that being pointed out.
When I was a telephone crisis counselor many years ago, there was a type of caller that was characterized as "poor me, ain't it awful, yes but..." I should have recognized you in that description. I am not one to offer constant "tea and sympathy," but rather like to point out the obvious. Yes, I can be rather brusque.
Since I now know that you really don't want advice from people, I will no longer respond to your posts. All the best to you and your wife, and I hope you can find some peace in your situation.
As far as the father and the hunting trip? Don't give him $ and don't enable him in any way. I don't see tgengine hauling his father to the doctor to get therapies that the father probably won't even cooperate with (right?) as worth tgengine's time and trouble.
But I guess what will happen is that tgengine will drive his father to the camp, give him $, or whatever the father wants. The more time that elapses, the more that things stay the same.
I would think of every physically challenging aspect of the trip and have him get prepared for it. Then you don't have to worry about him falling in the woods and you can enjoy the time he is gone. Use the hunting trip as the incentive he needs to keep fit and keep busy. Pull all his gear out and weigh it. If the therapist comes to your home they can more readily see what the trip entails and his current living environment. Medicare will pay for the therapy. Tell his doctor that he's surfing the furniture and having mobility issues, possibly his balance is off and he needs to be assessed by a therapist. Tell your dad you will help him order his license as soon as he gets started on the therapy. Maybe he should take the SIL with him on the trip? Win win.
Harden your nose. Dad wants to go hunting, Dad can take himself to the woods for a recce, can sort out his own licence, can rely on his buddies for any assistance he needs. And if he can't do those things, then ipso facto he can't handle the trip, because preparing for it is part of doing it.
The only bit you have to work on is saying 'not my problem' if the trip goes t*ts up. And, to look on the bright side, maybe it won't, and he'll have a nice time, and you'll get a break. And then again maybe his friends won't be so easily conned next year, on account of they'll have learned something.
Of course he won't change. Why should he when you're willing to compensate for him?
"Not allowed to ask about pretty much anything but yet everyone continues to live here scott free."
Honestly, I can't even think of anything to write in response to this. It's such an admission of subordination, of not even trying to stand up for your rights, and of just accepting that you're going to be a doormat for freeloading relatives.
"I know it wont get better so I have to look at this as my new normal."
TG, have you ever really, seriously, considered getting psychological help to establish boundaries and regain your sense of self respect? Or are you content to be a doormat for your family? Or is it that you just like to come here and get sympathy?
When you first posted some years ago, I never would have thought I would reach these conclusions, and I don't write them to be nasty. But you've come here repeatedly and asked for help, been told to stand up for yourself, set boundaries, get help, yet nothing seems to change. Months pass by, you're back again with the same complaints.
If you're willing to tolerate a subordinate position in your own household, accept that, but recognize that the situation isn't going to change if you're not willing to. And be honest that you want sympathy for a situation to which you've contributed by refusing to address it head on.
So I just continue doing what I need to keep my place going without any help from anyone (except my wonderful wife).
As far as dad, I will see when the time comes. He will ask for money and I am prepared to say no, he will have to figure out a different solution.
Right now working on me. Did a side job yesterday to get some extra cash (really didn't need it but always need some extra). Went back to the gym to get me in better shape (week 2, 5 days a week). Feel so much better. Gets me out of the house.
I have been painting outside, dad some to me and asks if I was done..... lets see 3/4s of it plainly can see is not done. He said he would love to help but he can't climb a ladder. Now he can't climb a ladder? For 3 years he has been telling me he can (I wont let him). Plus I was on the floor painting...... I had to laugh. He is only handicapped when it is convenient......
As far as SIL, he keeps the drinking hidden. Still can tell. I gave up as long as it is not in front of me or he gets out of line. I feel bad for my daughter, she is wasting her time with this guy. Going no where. Soon it will be too late for her when she wakes up. There is on so much we can tell and show her.
I wish I had a crystal ball before I got myself into all of this...... I know it wont get better so I have to look at this as my new normal. Saying no more often, cooking for 3 more often.
"Sure I can say no, it is like saying no to a child but he is not a child and I have no "ammo" to say why."
Sure you do. Ask his doctor if your father is fit enough for this hunting trip.
Your question asks " how do I tell him no?"
That is at the core of all of your experience with your dad, how to say " no". You have difficulty with saying no to other folks too, but let's start with dad.
What happens when you deny your father something? Does he get angry? Sad? Whiny? Tell tales to others to get back at you?
How did your mom say no to him? What was their interaction like?
Ponder those questions a bit, you may find some answers to your dilemna.
Your uncles sound just like your father. Your father cooks all the meals AND they don't even contribute? Freeloading moochers.
After all this time, nothing has appeared to change. You say NO to your father. No help getting the license, no driving him to the camp, NO $. So Daddy gets mad? The best case scenario would be he would get so mad that he would leave and start living with someone else, right? (Maybe he could move in with one of the Uncle Moochers?)
(P.S. Any good updates to the rest of your story? How's D and SIL? Is he still drinking? How is your wife doing?)
No, TG, no one is ganging up on you or your father because of a gun.
No, TG, you do not "HAVE" to do anything.
Yes, TG, you can do nothing because anything you do enables your father, cheeses you off, and then you come to this forum to complain about why nothing changes.
Learn to say "no" and your problem will be solved. Saying "no" is a skill, which you have yet to master.
As far as the trip, it is a annual thing I used to do but since he moved in it took all the fun out of going so I dont go. I can work it that my uncles can change the cooking schedule so he doesn't have to buy all the food. they all chip in but somehow he always comes up short on the money. He enjoys the cooking, they enjoy not having to but I dont enjoy the finance. He can cook there but not here, go figure. I will have to start saying no more often, been trying to. One day he is all needy, the next he has things in control (or so he thinks). It is like living with a child but this one can drive and make decisions.....
I'm confused why you think you have the ability to say yea or nay to the TRIP.
If this is about YOUR money, then you say no. You don't have to fund his luxuries. Let the rest of the family chip in if they want him to hunt with them.
My issue is his inability to deal with issues. He has no cognitive issues other than he likes to be waited on. He is ambulatory but needs assistance. As far as his going to camp, I am all for it as long as I dont have to fund it like I ended up doing last year. This year will be a big "NO". I cant afford to fund his cooking for camp (My uncles and friends). My family has always looked out for one another at camp. I doubt he will even go out. As far as walking in the wood, we have safety processes we use to avoid misfires. I can do a lot of prep calls to the family and friends to be assured he is not unsafe. Like I said, I doubt he will even leave camp, pretty cushy camp. We used to take my Great Grandfather out when he was much older, I highly figured they didn't even load his gun at that point, he just wanted to get out. Same with my grandfather. You would have to be a hunter to understand. My big issues is the long drive. There are no issues per-sea other than he is getting older.
Here it is another story, Most likely I will take him out for one day and show him how difficult it will be. If he gets out one day I am sure that will take care of the issue.
It is just the he makes it that I have to do everything for him. I get it, there are things he cant do. It is just difficult with no time off for me from all of this. Maybe if I drag my feet some more it will go away. Only hope. Sure I can say no, it is like saying no to a child but he is not a child and I have no "ammo" to say why.
for the liscence, that seems to imply I approve. Let
the other folks contend with him. Hopefully they'll
realize his limitations and keep a close eye on him or
not put live ammo in his gun. Right he drive seems
to be a lot. Can one of the others give him a lift?
Let him go and then you and your wife can have
some nice time together...enjoy it!
Although The Old Man has some reported deficits (balance, urinary, possible dementia, certainly psychiatric issues), he is not being "cared for" by anyone in the sense of needing help with ADLs. He's just broke and entitled.
So, all TG can do is say "no" to whatever his dad is asking him to do (get me a license--no dad, if you want a hunting license, you'll have to do that (and pay for it) yourself).
If his dad pursues this, so be it.
Maybe this is more of a man to man issue than a caregiving issue, although the latter complicates the situation.
If The Old Man can arrange this trip himself, pay for it himself and get himself there and back, then fine, he gets to go.
But if he gets hurt up there, he gets taken to the LOCAL hospital and TG is unavailable to show up. Let sis the RN go get him.