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Yes and they have to as you mom may present as being without the cognitive and competency to be know what she is signing. I feel totally for you. Now that this helps but realize that just so often elderly will do or threaten to change DPOA in a fit of pique. This site is littered with others who's parents have done the whole I'm gonna change my POA action……just not pretty.
If mom is this type, and either will not ever be reasonable &/or you don't have the personality to outsize her, then the only option left is for someone to become the legal guardian or conservator for mom. If the lawyer already is familiar with mom & you, I'd suggest you schedule a visit with them to discuss doing a G/C. Now G/C is pretty specialized, so they may refer you to another attorney. The costs for G/C run anywhere from 5K to 15K and there are court requirements, costs, etc.
G/C is not something to be taken lightly. I'll do another post on my perspective on all that.
For G/C, it is all a series of court proceedings. I've never been a G/C but have been executrix for 2 aunts and spent more hours in probate court than I ever imagined and probate is where G/C are heard as well. Here's my take on it:
The person has to be evaluated with letters presented to the court as to their mental state. Have to be by a physician or two and perhaps also a social worker or clergy. MD need to have state license and will have to be paid to provide this. Usually they do not come to the hearings but may be called if someone fights who gets G/C & they call into ? the documents. Because of that not all MD will sign off on competency. Your attorney - if they are experienced in doing G/C work - will have the names of MD who do. MD may or may not take Medicare or Medicaid. SW will be private pay.
Now if you are asking to be the G/C, you may have to undergo a background check. So think carefully is there is anything amiss. Could be something like your kid who lives in your household has juvee issues; someone has old felony record; you have outstanding parking tickets; you owe taxes. You need to have a job or other secure source of income, so there is no need for you to use any of the elder's money. If there is other family coming to hearings, you all have to present a 100 & 1% united front as to who is to be the G/C. No in-fighting and 1 person is the point person for the family. You need to present yourself properly in court & pay attention to the judge. He is the most important & best looking person in the room, even if he looks like Jabba the Hut too. A good G/C attorney will prep you on all this. But I've seen family who just can't sit and do what they have been told.
The judge does NOT have to appoint family as the G/C. If there is any fighting, they will usually appoint a temporary G/C from an approved & vetted list of G/C in your county. Family either has to get their sh** together or the temporary becomes the permanent G/C for the person and they get to determine placement, etc. Also if the G/C applicant has legal issues or seems to the judge to be incapable of doing the work required (reporting, hearings, etc), the judge kinda has to give the G/C either to a better suited family member or name an outside G/C.
Now you have to pay the attorney for the G/C work. If you become the G/C then you can pay them from the elders assets or reimburse yourself for the costs you paid up front. But if you loose, you have spent the $ with no recourse.
If you don't have the funds to pay for G/C and mom needs to be forced placed for her own safety & security, what to do? Contact APS to do a wellness check on mom. If mom is violent and threading, APS will contact the police and she will be taken probably in EMS vehicle for a mental health evaluation at the local hospital. If they find areas of concern (which sounds likely), you tell them that you want mom to become a ward of the state and placed under the states care system. that you are unable to provide the level of care or oversight needed for mom - you have to be very firm and consistent in stating this too. Ward of the state is a G/C action, and the judge will appoint a temporary vetted by the court G/C from an established list to deal with mom. Often this situation is the best as the G/C can get things done much faster - like an emergency placement in a skilled nursing facility or mental health placement if she is violent & threatening - than you ever could & there is none of the parent/child emotional issues involved. The G/C for wards of the state don't shut out family, they want family to be involved. But you have to clearly understand that they are in charge, they direct what happens.
None of this is easy but sometimes you have to take a stand for what is the best for the elders long term situation. Good luck & stay focused.
If a lawyer believes that his client is not of sound mind, he not only can but must refuse to accept her instructions. So if your mother has lost capacity, she cannot change her DPOA.
But has she lost capacity? Has she formally been found incompetent in the legal sense? If not, see Igloo's exceptionally helpful guide to guardianship, above, because you're going to have a heck of a game getting her assessed so that you can start using your DPOA as intended.
Perchance, has her doctor already evaluated her and found her to be incompetent to handle her business in a business like manner? If so, present the lawyer with an official letter from the doctor. If not, as her medial POA you should be able to take with her doctor and set up an appointment for your mom and make up some reason for going so that she does not know that she is actually going for an evaluation. If it has been a while, maybe the doctor can find an excuse to call her in to just see how she is doing?
I was just asked to notarize a DPOA for an Alzheimer's patient. I told the family their only option is to seek Guardian status. The Grandpa is non-verbal, can't feed himself, wanders about naked and pees on the floor. He would have no idea what he was signing.
I have a similar legal case. In my case, I went to my mother's lawyer in July and requested that he have papers drawn up enable us to move my mother's property to her living Trust along with her tangible property. He was asked to update her documents POA for healthcare, POA for finance, Trust, and Will. We went back to him in December ready to sign and my mother says to her lawyer that she is not ready to sigh these into effect because she does not want to give her three Adult children control to make decisions over her. Her attorney has decided to terminate the client / attorney relationship and wil not give my mom her original documents she paid for. What recourse does she have?
Luvpeople, your question should be posted not as a response to the original discussion, but as an entirely new Question, youll receieve better response from more people that way. In my experience with lawyers, they charge for their time, and s/he may feel that in July they had spent their time drawing up the papers, and that time (talking with Mom took more time than the time spent pushing "print" on the computer) deserves to be compensated. Even if your mom never signs them, the lawyer did as she asked, prepared the paperwork, but since it appears she is not willing to partake in any further agreement in those papers, the lawyer isn't going to have any further "relationship" with this client, IOW he is not going to make any more money from a non-existent agreement. The lawyers want repeat business with a well-paying client base. They don't want to write new POA/Wills and not have anymore work such as help settling the estate.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If mom is this type, and either will not ever be reasonable &/or you don't have the personality to outsize her, then the only option left is for someone to become the legal guardian or conservator for mom. If the lawyer already is familiar with mom & you, I'd suggest you schedule a visit with them to discuss doing a G/C. Now G/C is pretty specialized, so they may refer you to another attorney. The costs for G/C run anywhere from 5K to 15K and there are court requirements, costs, etc.
G/C is not something to be taken lightly. I'll do another post on my perspective on all that.
The person has to be evaluated with letters presented to the court as to their mental state. Have to be by a physician or two and perhaps also a social worker or clergy. MD need to have state license and will have to be paid to provide this. Usually they do not come to the hearings but may be called if someone fights who gets G/C & they call into ? the documents. Because of that not all MD will sign off on competency. Your attorney - if they are experienced in doing G/C work - will have the names of MD who do. MD may or may not take Medicare or Medicaid. SW will be private pay.
Now if you are asking to be the G/C, you may have to undergo a background check. So think carefully is there is anything amiss. Could be something like your kid who lives in your household has juvee issues; someone has old felony record; you have outstanding parking tickets; you owe taxes. You need to have a job or other secure source of income, so there is no need for you to use any of the elder's money. If there is other family coming to hearings, you all have to present a 100 & 1% united front as to who is to be the G/C. No in-fighting and 1 person is the point person for the family. You need to present yourself properly in court & pay attention to the judge. He is the most important & best looking person in the room, even if he looks like Jabba the Hut too. A good G/C attorney will prep you on all this. But I've seen family who just can't sit and do what they have been told.
The judge does NOT have to appoint family as the G/C. If there is any fighting, they will usually appoint a temporary G/C from an approved & vetted list of G/C in your county. Family either has to get their sh** together or the temporary becomes the permanent G/C for the person and they get to determine placement, etc. Also if the G/C applicant has legal issues or seems to the judge to be incapable of doing the work required (reporting, hearings, etc), the judge kinda has to give the G/C either to a better suited family member or name an outside G/C.
Now you have to pay the attorney for the G/C work. If you become the G/C then you can pay them from the elders assets or reimburse yourself for the costs you paid up front. But if you loose, you have spent the $ with no recourse.
If you don't have the funds to pay for G/C and mom needs to be forced placed for her own safety & security, what to do? Contact APS to do a wellness check on mom. If mom is violent and threading, APS will contact the police and she will be taken probably in EMS vehicle for a mental health evaluation at the local hospital. If they find areas of concern (which sounds likely), you tell them that you want mom to become a ward of the state and placed under the states care system. that you are unable to provide the level of care or oversight needed for mom - you have to be very firm and consistent in stating this too. Ward of the state is a G/C action, and the judge will appoint a temporary vetted by the court G/C from an established list to deal with mom. Often this situation is the best as the G/C can get things done much faster - like an emergency placement in a skilled nursing facility or mental health placement if she is violent & threatening - than you ever could & there is none of the parent/child emotional issues involved. The G/C for wards of the state don't shut out family, they want family to be involved. But you have to clearly understand that they are in charge, they direct what happens.
None of this is easy but sometimes you have to take a stand for what is the best for the elders long term situation. Good luck & stay focused.
But has she lost capacity? Has she formally been found incompetent in the legal sense? If not, see Igloo's exceptionally helpful guide to guardianship, above, because you're going to have a heck of a game getting her assessed so that you can start using your DPOA as intended.